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#132779 08/18/01 02:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 26
K
Member
Hi Pauluk.

Yeah, Sweden / UK may have more things in common than Sweden / US . Much thanks to the EU I think. About the pipes. We uses “conduit’s” ( OPG-Pipes they are called here and can be built together by using pre-fabricated bends and seams) as well to protect wiring from mechanical damage, but like you said mostly in industrial work. I’ve seen some work here in Sweden from the 40’s or 50’s where conduits was used for running wires on the outside of walls.

In concealed residential wiring from the 40’s and 50’s maybe even some part of the 60’s they used something called “panzer pipes”. Junction boxes and boxes for light switches and sockets (I don’t think they are called boxes but I think you know what I mean) where also made of metal. One time I was searching for a electric fault in a house built in the late 50’s. My test instrument had probes which was not completely insulated. I had placed one probe on a live (240V) and was just about to remove it when it accidentally touched the box. BAM. The box was in some way, through the pipes, connected to ground. I don’t think the pipes or the box was grounded by intention it was more likely a coincidence.


Fuseman
#132780 08/18/01 02:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
Member
Kent,

Anything that you care to send. Violation photos are especially of interest to us. But if there are standard wiring practices or materials that differ from our own, they are interesting too. What does your standard Electrical service look like for example? That might be different than ours.

Bill


Bill
#132781 08/18/01 03:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Kent,

Yes, I think the EU is working toward standardizing just about everything in our part of the world. There are still some obstacles to electrical matters from our I.E.E., though.

As you will know, the "Schuko" plug that you use is about the most widely used in Europe, but our committees in the U.K. are reluctant to adopt it because it's non-polarized (i.e. there's no way to guarantee which way line and neutral are connected).

With regard to the grounded boxes and conduit you found, I would have thought this was standard practice in Sweden.
Our IEE Regulations here certainly specify that all metallic conduits and boxes must be grounded, and even though compliance with the Regs.is not compulsory for residential wiring, no decent electrician would ever leave boxes without a ground. (Just think what would happen if a live wire shorted to the inside of a conduit.)
Sweden has quite a reputation for safety matters, so I'm sure this wouldn't have been overlooked.

Incidentally, I know most distribution in Scandinavia is 3-phase 220/380V, but I know some areas have a 220V service fed from a transformer with a grounded center tap. Do you have any of these systems in Sweden?

#132782 08/18/01 03:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Bill,

I have no idea what the standard electrical service entrance is like in Sweden, but our system in the U.K. is very different to yours.

Without the aid of photos it'll take some describing, so I'll post details in a new thread when I get a chance.

#132783 08/19/01 04:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 26
K
Member
Pauluk (and the rest of you guys if your
interested)

You may be right about the boxes and pipes, but things which are meant to be grounded (both now and back in the days) usually has a screw-connection for the ground wire. These boxes has no such and the pipes have no visible grounding point either. The boxes used to have some kind of paper insulation but when it gets old it starts to fall apart.


Yes, we have a 3-phase 240/400V (they raised the voltage some years ago) direct ground system (the transformer centre point is connected to ground) for public distribution. The customer receives 3-phases and a joined neutral /ground (PEN). The power companies talks about start using a 5-wire system from their junction in the street and in to the houses, but I don’t think it is in use yet.

If I understand things correctly households in England has a single-phase service at 240V. So you run everything on 240. Stoves, boilers, washing machines, electrical heating and so on?

A little about the colour code. We use black as phase, blue as neutral and green/yellow as ground. Our fixed 3-wire cables uses the same colours. Add a brown for the 4-wire cables and a white for the 5. Plastic flexible 3-wire cords, brown, blue, green/yellow. Cables with larger dimensions (for let’s say 16amp and up) have all black wires marked with numbers (tiny and sometimes hard to read) 1-3 or 1-4 and a copper “shield” witch is used for ground. I think these types of cables in the future will become colour coded as well.

I saw the word “Romex” on the forum. What exactly is it and is it the most common cable for residential work?

I feel a small need to apologise for my crappy English but it’s a bit tricky for me you know.


Fuseman
#132784 08/19/01 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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pauluk Offline OP
Member
Kent:

I've never heard of metal fixture boxes which are then insulated. We've certainly never used anything like that here.

We adopted the common European brown, blue, green/yellow colours in 1970, but only for flexible cords. Fixed wiring cables continued with our old system of red for phase, black for neutral, green for ground.
Green/yellow is now used for ground on fixed cables as well, but we still use red and black.

When flexibles are used for 3-phase now, all 3 phase conductors are brown, and we also use letters or numbers to identify them if phase rotation or identification is important.

Do I take it that black, brown, and white are your standard colours for 3 phase fixed wiring? Ours are red, yellow, and blue (since 1965).

Yes, houses in the U.K. normally get a single-phase 240V service, rated at 100A on almost all new houses, although a lot of older 60 and 80A services are still in use, and even a few 40A ones.

I think 3-phase for residential use is quite common across Continental Europe, isn't it? I know this is certainly the case in France, where I have seen some houses with a 3-phase supply of as little as 15A per phase.

"Twin & earth" is the cable used for 99% of residential wiring in England. It consists of an outer oval-shaped PVC sheath in grey or white, containing two PVC-insulated wires for line & neutral between which is a bare copper ground wire. We also have "triple & earth" which is used for 2-way light switching, etc.

"Romex" is the American equivalent, but with a different colour code. In case you didn't know, in America they use black for phase and white for neutral.

#132785 08/20/01 04:08 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
>2-way light switching
We call it three-way.

Romex is a brand name used to refer to non-metallic sheathed cable.

#132786 08/20/01 05:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Quote
Originally posted by Dspark:
>[b]2-way light switching
We call it three-way.

I was aware of that - Just another of those little differences in terminology, but I thought Kent in Sweden would probably be more likely to know it as 2-way.

I know you can get Romex in 2-way (black, white) and 3-way (black, white, red) with & without ground, but do they make it in any other versions?

#132787 08/20/01 09:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
Member
Kent,

I was just thinking how good your English was! You have no reason at all for apology. It is better than many natives around here speak!

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
#132788 08/20/01 10:55 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
>... Romex ... do they make it in any other versions?

I believe that you can custom order just about any number of conductors and colors that you wish... the same goes for metal jacketed cables.

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