ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Hot Tub Install

Didn't mean to sound so caustic...

...and I didn't know there was just one type, and it takes so long to order the right part around here that one wishes to get things right the first time.

No one else that I know of installs discos in residential hot tub installs, but it does say it right there in black and white. (680-12)

If I put a GFCI WP Recept (W/ an in-use cover) for landscape lighting transformer under the deck, but within 5 ft. of the hottub (under the deck that is under the hot tub), am I busting 680-41(a)(1)? The deck will have an hatch in the lattice to access the receptacle.

Those special purpose discos w/ the GFCI breaker, what brand? That sounds like a great idea.

Ahhh... Steve, I didn't see that one, and we were posting at about the same time...

I'm confused too... Any takers?

Sorry I got a little sore at the instructions thing... I have the reputation of reading instructions, and with all the comments from the other workers that go with it..."don't know how to put up a fan, there sparky?"

For the most part, Hot tub installers do their own electrical work so I have little experience with them. I was also asked the same question by a gentleman who was grandfathered in and I had the same head scatching, shoulder shrugging response. Now I know what to do and what to tell anyone that asks!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-07-2001).]

'66,

I think We had this conversation before somewhere. Don would know the particulars. I just remember having the same thought about what to do with the Neutral and that it is covered in the Instructions.

I've seen 2 types of Disconnect/with GFCI. One is really nothing more than a Sub panel with a GFCI Breaker in it. I've seen it come as a package in 40, 50, and 60 amp models.

The other is a pullout with a BlankFace (120v) GFCI which monitors all 3 conductors and controls the coil for the Load Contactor. Because the GFCI is 120v it needs at least a #12 neutral even if the Load doesn't need it. See Illustration Below:



Spec sheet:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/theory/240vGFCI-Relay.pdf

Bill

I may need to take this question over to Electrical Theory...


Will this GFCI detect a balanced leakage, e.g., a 1.0000 ampere leakage on T1 and 1.0000 ampere on T2?

Dspark,

That's a good question.
My first reaction would be to say no. But when thinking of it as a complete circuit (going back to source) I'm confused. You're right, a good Theory topic.

I just noticed the Labelling seems to be wrong on the diagram. the Neutral goes thru the contactor and becomes T1 ??

Do you see that the same way or is it my tired eyes (I didn't draw it) If you agree it's wrong I'll correct it somehow.

Bill

I have been corrected on the disco.
680-12 applies to the entire article, is a disco, 680-38 is talking about an E-stop, sorry for the digression...

I hate to beat a dead horse, but does the disconnect required by 680-12, require an insulated ground, installed in a raceway, as per 680-25(d)

Well, I've completely blown this one...

We're still awaiting the breaker to be delivered, so all it not lost. However...

1) I must admit that I didn't know about the disco thing either, Steve. (I thought you had saved me with the mention of 680-38. That's why I kept quiet about it til now...)

2) I used NM Cable in PVC raceway in outdoor (wet) situation.

3) The NM Cable has a bare ground.

4) The general contractor bought most of the materials, so I had to piece together all kinds of crazy stuff...

5) the city building inspector will probably pass it...

So, what do I do? Move on? Go back and fix everything for free? I find it ironic that the PoCo wants me to become an inspector... boy they must be desperate...


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-08-2001).]

Kicking myself for not noticing that!


If I put a GFCI WP Recept (W/ an in-use cover) for landscape lighting transformer under the deck, but within 5 ft. of the hottub (under the deck that is under the hot tub), am I busting 680-41(a)(1)? The deck will have an hatch in the lattice to access the receptacle.

Sorry about the repeat, but I need to know

Can I run NMC through 1-1/2" PVC to the disco, then go with THHN from there to the Hot Tub and convert the last three feet to Carflex (NM Flexible Tubing)? The 1-1/2" PVC is already there, as is the #6-3 10G NMB cable. In fact, it's all hooked up and waiting for a GFCI breaker. (Uh, sans disco at this point, but I'll put one in...crap... )

Yeah, it's messed up. L1 should go to T1, L2 to T2, and N to N. I wasn't looking at the specific wires, but rather how it detects an imbalance.


I was thinking about the coil and the field that would be produced in it by the three conductors.

So long as equal currents flow through T1 and T2 and N has zero, I am suspicious that the net field would be zero no matter where the current from T1 and T2 ended up.