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Joined: Apr 2002
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Assuming the listed fixture requires "x" trim and customer wants "y" trim.
"x" trim is installed for the inspection, then changed to "y" by the contractor.
The contractor knows the install is a violation.
A catastrophe happens evolving the fixture, who pays?
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I have found some recessed cans that require sealed trims when installing over a tub or shower. In the situation here I usually do what is required and they can do whatever they want when I'm gone.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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More code ref, from 517.2.......
Wet Locations.
Those patient care areas that are normally subject to wet conditions while patients are present. These include standing fluids on the floor or drenching of the work area, either of which condition is intimate to the patient or staff. Routine housekeeping procedures and incidental spillage of liquids do not define a wet location.
The definition of patient care area applies to hospitals as well as patient care areas in outpatient facilities. A patient bed location in a nursing home can be considered a patient care area if a person is examined or treated in that location. However, it excludes such areas as laundry rooms, boiler rooms, and utility areas, which, although routinely wet, are not patient care areas. The governing body of the health care facility may elect to include such areas as hydrotherapy areas, dialysis laboratories, and certain wet laboratories under this definition. Lavatories or bathrooms within a health care facility are not intended to be classified as wet locations. For infection control purposes, many patient and treatment areas have a sink for hand washing, which is not intended to be a wet location either.
interesting referal to 'bathrooms' eh?
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Joined: Jan 2002
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still looking......
art. 100 Location,Wet.
Installation under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposes to weather.
Doesn't sound like the ceiling above a tub in a dwelling falls under wet location to me.
My fixture trim and housing are both listed for "damp location".
Hop in Joe T and help me out.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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I too agree, its not a "wet location" in your case, and this situation has been the subject of proposed changes in the past and was not considered.
The mobile home shower -- if it the "whole room in the bathroom" gets used as a shower, then the entire area is probably correctly considered as a wet location. I too need a specific reference that was not available for me when I searched the code.
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I just checkedout a Halo can and read all the fine print. It is suitable for use indoors and outdoors. Can be used in damp locations. Can be used in wet locations with Halo shower trims. Does this get us anywhere?
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Escott, My Lithonia LCP can and CO2 trim are both listed for damp too and they got turned down. I am going to track down my inspector monday morning and I'll post his explaination. I think they're just shooting from the hip on this one. I can't see how this is a wet location at all.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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I'll post his explaination a revelation i'm sure.....ask why the code would specify different circuit /distance requirements for bodily immersion..... betcha a coffee he dunno!.... 680.22(B) Luminaires (Lighting Fixtures), Lighting Outlets, and Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fans.
(1) New Outdoor Installation Clearances. In outdoor pool areas, luminaires (lighting fixtures), lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans installed above the pool or the area extending 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of the pool shall be installed at a height not less than 3.7 m (12 ft) above the maximum water level of the pool.
(2) Indoor Clearances. For installations in indoor pool areas, the clearances shall be the same as for outdoor areas unless modified as provided in this paragraph. If the branch circuit supplying the equipment is protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter, the following equipment shall be permitted at a height not less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.) above the maximum pool water level:
(1) Totally enclosed luminaires (fixtures)
(2) Ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans identified for use beneath ceiling structures such as provided on porches or patios
(3) Existing Installations. Existing luminaires (lighting fixtures) and lighting outlets located less than 1.5 m (5 ft) measured horizontally from the inside walls of a pool shall be not less than 1.5 m (5 ft) above the surface of the maximum water level, shall be rigidly attached to the existing structure, and shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(4) GFCI Protection in Adjacent Areas. Luminaires (lighting fixtures), lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans installed in the area extending between 1.5 m (5 ft) and 3.0 m (10 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter unless installed not less than 1.5 m (5 ft) above the maximum water level and rigidly attached to the structure adjacent to or enclosing the pool.
(5) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Luminaires (Lighting Fixtures). Cord-and-plug-connected luminaires (lighting fixtures) shall comply with the requirements of 680.7 where installed within 4.9 m (16 ft) of any point on the water surface, measured radially.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sparky, do you want cream and sugar in your coffee...he ain't gonna know.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Thanks arseegee....caffine & sugar breakfast of champions.....
perhaps an ROP would reveal the NEC rationale?
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