ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion FPE - It's True What They Say

This looks like my work everyday. Most customers want the upgrade from this -- especially after I inform them to do a search for FPE on the internet. Selling an upgrade from a Federal to a Square D, or Murray, or whatever, is a piece of cake when electrical equipment marked "FPE" is used. Would you want one in your house?

[This message has been edited by ShockMe77 (edited 07-07-2006).]

i have an old FPE panel in my house which is over 100 yrs old,never had a problem with them tripping. there the brown case with a black handle. thanks mxslick for that link very informative + scary!i know about them not tripping because i accidentally cut into one on a 20 amp circuit in a sub panel fed by a 100 amp sguare D , it tripped first. not to mention leaving to check other things. happened to be in the hardware store today so i thought i'd see what they had,the replacements are made by a company called UBI incorporated.a division of contienetal electric.these do trip on a short but don't know about an overload. the reason i say this is i had one on a sewage pump station that smeone cut the plug off of the float cord & put on a male plug on the end then plugged it in.kinda hard to figure what was up until i got my ohmmeter out, then all was clear. asked the homeowner how long had it been this way & he said as long as he could rember.the float was supposed to turn a warning light on to let them no the pump was not running, it did. just not a light!anyway after i sraightned this out all worked well. considering i was standing around a couple of do it yourselfers that had a few too many beers to drink & didn't have a clue as to how close they had come from getting killed! now that's scary!

This kind of looks like the results from one of the following scenarios:

<OL TYPE=A>

[*] The Barbecued item was a 2 pole Breaker, which had the Panelboard's Feeders brought into it, and the Feeders were loose in the lugs,


[*] BBQ'd device is 2 Pole C/B, which had loose terminations on the Bus slots,


[*] BBQ'd device is a lug assembly, which mounts to the Bus Kit, which had loose terminations to the Bus - or loose Feeder terminations on the lugs,


[*] Being that the Feeders are Aluminum, maybe someone came along in the past few Years and "messed around" with the terminations - maybe going as far as terminations which had oxidation and/or not using any Anti-Oxidation compound.
</OL>

Those little Federal Pacific "Panel-ettes" can become extremely dangerous after being opened a few times (namely, by unexperienced personnel).
If they are "Untouched", the Breakers remain tightly seated inside, and there is very little heat "generated at the Panelboard" .

After someone with little to no knowledge of the FPE line (or what occurs when Bus Terminations are left loose) gets in these Panels, the trouble starts.

First common problem is the dead front cover doesn't fit back on properly, so instead of correcting the problem where it exists (the enclosure is tweeked, due to the installation of a new circuit), the cover gets bashed back on - ultimately resulting in damaging a Breaker, loosening them from the "Stab-LoK" Bus, or both.

Second, someone installs an incorrect style FPE breaker on the Bus, which ends up being loose on the Bus - transferring built up heat to the Bus and all Breakers in it's proximity.

I am not saying the FPE "Stab-Lok" line is all that great; only that these are kind of like K&T Wiring:
When some unexperienced person messes with them, trouble usually starts immediately afterwards.

Have dealt with "a few" panelboards in my career, and have also seen "a few" unexperienced persons work on panelboards, which - in a wierd way - assisted in my overall experiences, understandings and knowledge.

This is why I prefer to excel in Broom Pushing!!!

Scott35

This was a main lug panel, both the ungrounded conductors are taped off in the first picture. The Main, in with the metering about 60' away, was also an FPE.
Scott, I'd have to say scenario "C"
I don't think this panel was opened since it was installed originally.

Here's the parts as they laid out. You can see the 8-32 screws that you mention, mxslick.



Kind of like a sick jigsaw puzzle.

I love the smell of burnt au/cu and ozone! I remeber back when I started my apprenticeship, when I turned a pair of dykes into strippers. The part of the building I was in was completely dark, and I was gutting wires from an old 4/4 JB. A clip here, snip there, then POW! Lesson learned, always check for voltage, no matter how dark it is!

Thanks for the further details, electure! I am very surprised that the FPE 100amp main DID trip. Now my question is would it trip again if necessary or has it failed like the ones detailed in the links I posted?

I have personally had two of these panels explode in my presence, one when I was removing the dead front to add a breaker and the second when I went to reset a tripped (amazing, eh?) breaker. Hate these panels with a passion.

circuit man, hope you get to upgrade that panel soon. Just because it's working now doesn't mean it will continue to do so in the future.

But I do believe in what one EC told me a long time ago, that if you're not experiencing problems with the panel now, best to leave it undisturbed until you're ready to change it. (Meaning leave the dead front on and don't try to pull any breakers out.) But it would be a good idea to try each breaker manually to ensure it will shut off power, to be sure the contacts aren't welded closed.

They also have links on the site for it's sister troublemaker, Zinsco...

That still blows my mind...
I know from looking in my panel that the buss and the punched plate the breakers sit in is all one piece.. there is no lil' 8-32 screw bolting the plate to the buss.. Come to think of it I have never seen any screws bolting the punched plate to the buss in any FPE panel I have been into or installed... I DO have an old one that I think dates back to the 50's or so I am going to look at and see what it looks like just for " ha-has"..
as for thenm not tripping... Must be a difference between the newer stuff and the old, and the stuff made for Canada vs the stuff that is made in the USA..
Albeit the ones here in Canada are
S... L... O... W to trip I have yet to see one that hasn't I have even had the 2-pole 20 that used to protect my old 2-ton Lennox A/C trip every time there was a momentary power interruption and the compressor tried to re-start while there was excessive head pressure at the compressor.. ( Really fellas, it DID trip, and more than once too!!! I am not on cheap drugs or anything!!!!).. There are many many instances where I can say they did their job, BUT I WILL say I did see where a neighbour plugged in 25 amps worth of Christmas lighting into a 20 A receptacle and circuit, protected AND controlled by a " NA-20" FPE breaker.. Ya know the "wide" ones that are also stamped "SWD" for switching duty.... Well, it took about 4 hours for the bugger to trip, but without a word of a lie, nothing seemed excessively warm to the touch, and I repeated the " test" the next night with the same results, nothing seemed to get much hotter than " normal", well "normal" to the touch anyway
Also Tried running 30A through 1/2 of a wide 2-pole 20 A FPE breaker once.... For "ha-has" yet again...Took 8 mins to trip,. and less after each reset that as the innards of the breaker were still warm..
BUT believe it or not the bugger tripped repeatedly!!

Sorry, I know there are MANY out there that think FPE are crap, and well, you probably are right, I just don't want you all to think I am off my rocker for what I have stated above, but I just haven't seen the problems I have heard so much about... Trust me though when I do I will fess up that I saw an FPE go bad and I will try and get pix to boot!!

A.D