|
1 members (Scott35),
396
guests, and
15
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
Moderator
|
Another code authority (from hurricane country) has asserted that a ground rod at a light pole make no sense- het, if a pole is a structure, it would seem to be required. Are we talking code or what makes sense. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/smile.gif) A light pole is a structure. It would require a grounding electrode if it was supplied with a feeder or more than one branch circuit.
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
Member
|
Then all hot tubs are structures then?
Or just because this has a roof, that makes it a structure?
It is a real vague definition, don't you think?
Dnk...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
Moderator
|
It's a structure because it was built or constructed, it has nothing to do with a roof.
Put the hot tub in the middle of the yard all by itself and it is still a structure.
In other words if it did not grow from a seed or is otherwise natural it is a structure.
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 178
Member
|
Good topic...
Now that we've decided (maybe) what a structure is, I just have to ask: What, exactly, does "separate" mean?
Example: You build a brick barbecue one foot from away the house. Is it a structure? Is it "separate"? If you mount a weatherproof receptacle on it for your rotisserie, does NEC require a disconnect?
Another example: If the gazebo is attached to the house with an overhead shade lattice, is the gazebo still a separate structure, or is it part of the house? Why?
Taken-to-Absurdity example: How about a single 2x4 stretching from the house to the gazebo for "shade"? Are they still separate structures?
Somehow, I don't think Article 100 is going to help here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Member
|
250.32(A) Exception: A grounding electrode at separate buildings or structures shall not be required where only one branch circuit supplies the building or structure and the branch circuit includes an equipment grounding conductor for grounding the conductive non–current-carrying parts of all equipment. If it JUST the hot tub circuit, its OK. Anything else...
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,443 Likes: 3
Member
|
Mr Crighton, What, exactly, does "separate" mean? Now before I get jumped on here, I'm on the outside looking in as far as the NEC goes (being in NZ), but my understanding is that if a structure is not part of the original house foundations, it is "seperate". Example: You build a brick barbecue one foot from away the house. Is it a structure? Is it "separate"? My understanding of it would make a seperate structure, it is not part of the house structure, but it has been built in addition to the house on that land.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 178
Member
|
Trumpy,
Hmm, NEC makes no distinction about a structure having a "foundation," but maybe that would be part of the criteria.
I suspect that the AHJ would refer to definitions of "structure" and "separate" in codes other than NEC to make the judgment, then enforce the applicable NEC sections.
By the way, it's just John -- "Mr. Crighton" was my father!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
Member
|
John, I suspect that the AHJ would refer to definitions of "structure" and "separate" in codes other than NEC to make the judgment, then enforce the applicable NEC sections. They can't as far as "structure" goes. That term is defined in Article 100 and that is the only definition that can be used for NEC issues. Don
Don(resqcapt19)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 99
Member
|
In the general discussion area under "ground rod for hot tub" on 2-13 2004, it was said that a ground rod was permitted but not required, so does that mean it is not a structure, but becomes a structure when something is built around it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
Cat Servant Member
|
E57....you did it again! You found yet another "fuzzy" area of hot tub installs. Did I run a branch circuit- or a feeder?
Well, I ran a single 240 circuit to the tub, and simply terminated my four wires as directed (yes, there was a neutral required).
As part of the tub assembly, after my connections the wires entered the tub's control center, where power was sent off in differing directions to the heater, tub pump, aerator pump, stereo, TV, and lights. Each of these functions had it's own little breaker, switch..and often a molex-type wire harness leaving the center. Is this a "panel", with its' own branch circuits?
As mentioned before, the instructions of this UL listed tub simply said to run the four wires to the tub, from a GFI breaker.
|
|
|
|
Posts: 240
Joined: March 2005
|
|
|
|
