ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion TEST: What's Wrong With This?

Not a silly question at all.

This would be unacceptable by todays standards.

It does have some thin metal closing off the hole on the top side but it is not fire stopping.

Two major changes now would be totally enclosed bus duct and a fire stopping system would be required around the penetration.

This building has hundreds of open penetrations at water, waste, heating, cooling, electrical pipes and duct work.

It surprises me that as recently as 1964 a 120 unit apartment building could be built in a major city without,

1)Sprinklers

It still does not have sprinklers, it does have a standpipe in each stairway to run hoses from. The standpipe is dry, it must be supplied from a fire dept truck in the street.

2)Fire Alarm System.

It has a basic one now, no smoke control provisions. Even a three story apartment building near my house has smoke exhaust / hallway pressure fans controlled by the fire panel.

3)No fire stopping. (New work gets sealed)

The building is constructed of cement and steel I imagine that made it sound safe without the other items.

Sorry for ranting...Bob




[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-27-2005).]

Well, check out what they offered instead (really, this one had a max 200A @ 600V rating)



This is an item on the same page as the disconnect shown above. It's from an '83 FPE catalogue.
I've never seen one of these, and hope I never will.

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 02-28-2005).]

Time out. I know that in most of the Frankenstein movies I have they pull the switch down to energize the circuit. I think this installer was right, I think Dr. Frankenstein was right, and I think you are all wrong!

I'm surprised, but not surprised, if you know what I mean. I don't think the life safety systems that we take for granted today were all that common even 30 years ago.

Consider this:

Dormitory building at a Connecticut state university, built 1970. It had no fire alarm or sprinkler system when new. (Not related to safety, but it's funny to see how it used to have only one phone per hallway, and of course had no cable TV or internet hook up in each room. )

In fact, hardly any buildings on the campus, had a fire alarm system or sprinklers when they were built. These have all been added in the last 10-15 years.

Does anyone know at what point in time these systems became common to install?

Bob,
That isn't a rant, it's merely stating the plainly obvious.
Electure,
I must say I agree with you about that disconnect, it looks like a death-trap.
Imagine closing that onto a fault?.
Hi Ryan,
But didn't the monster "turn" on the Dr?.

Thats true...monsters are so inconsiderate anymore, ya know?

Ryan was right the first time. The monster didn't turn on the Doctor. It was the Dr. that turned the monster on......And he did it with a switch.....that was "dead" when up. and "alive" when down.



Yup, just like Ryan said

Just a few recollections...forgive me if I'm off a year or two.

Sprinklers: Sprinklers were quite often not required in commercial and residential applications...until the '68 fire at Chicago's McCormic Place Convention Center focused attention on them.
As late as '78, the NFPA was in conflict with a reformer named Patten, who argued that the sprinkler code was only interested in property protection, and not in saving lives. This was about the time the battery-powered smoke detector was making its' own mark. Eventually, Patten won the argument, and a sprinkler code was written, and products developed, for household applications.
Even today, the use of sprinklers in residences is spotty....often with only the public areas so protected.

Firestopping: As a result of the '71 fire in the Harpers Ferry nuclear power plant, firestopping began to get some serious attention. Until then, I'm not even sure intumescent caulk even existed....the fire started when a plumbers' candle, used to check for air leaks, ignited the spray foam that was used to seal penetrations.

I hope my recollections are better than my answer to this "test"....I sure blew this one!

Scott,
That looks like a pretty "progressive" sort of a Frankenstien movie you have there.
On the one hand we have a Frankenstein wearing Roller blades.
On the other, we have a guy that looks like one of the guys from ZZ Top holding up the board with the switch on it.
Hmm.

Was this one of the subs?