ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell - 04/23/24 03:03 PM
Old low volt E10 sockets - supplier or alternative
by gfretwell - 04/21/24 11:20 AM
Do we need grounding?
by gfretwell - 04/06/24 08:32 PM
UL 508A SPACING
by tortuga - 03/30/24 07:39 PM
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 517 guests, and 32 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#118790 11/03/04 02:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,498
T
Member
Quote
The typical wiring method in Israel is to use a rotohammer to chisel irregulat trenches in the block wall, insert 'smurf' tube and boxes, then plaster over. The wires are similar to THHN, but are capped by little terminal strips - look like but splices with screws.

Exactly the way you do it in most continental European countries. However, the trenches (if horizontal) should be within 1ft from the finished floor or ceiling, so it's not all irregular.
In Germany there are two types of set-screw connectors. The type in the picture is only allowed to be used for hooking up light fixtures etc. Then there's a second type with just one row of screws, which is used for fixed wiring inside boxes, just like wire nuts in the US. Here in Austria you're allowed to use the pictured style of choc blocks for fixed wiring, but you may only use one set of screws (or strip the wires long enough to get them under both screws from one side). You're not allowed to insert wires from both sides since that would reduce the cross-section of the wire and thus pose a fire risk. At least that's what I was told.
@Paul: for the real old bakelite ones you'd need a hack saw! And the even older ones were made of porcelaine.
When you move out of a house you usually take the light fixtures and leave the choc blocks in order to cap off the loose wire ends. However, some DIYers also take the choc blocks and use band aid or sello (Scotch) tape on the wires. Band aid is actually pretty common. Tends to fall off after some time. Lovely!

#118791 11/03/04 04:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
S
Member
Ragnar said:
Quote
but you may only use one set of screws (or strip the wires long enough to get them under both screws from one side).


Wait, I thought the whole point with these terminal strips was so that you could join two wires together by inserting one wire through one end and the other through the other end and clamping down with the screws, making sure the wires don't poke out of the sides in order to avoid danger of electric shock.

At least that's the way I've used (and seen them used) as terminal blocks. You have the appliance's internal wiring entering through one row of holes and fastened down with one row of screws. The external wire enters the opposite row and is clamped by the oppsite screws. Wires have to be trimmed so that nothing is exposed.

#118792 11/03/04 04:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
S
Member
John Steinke wrote:
Quote
The typical wiring method in Israel is to use a rotohammer to chisel irregulat trenches in the block wall, insert 'smurf' tube and boxes, then plaster over.

Same method is used in Colombia when dealing with masonry wall. Trench is cut in the solid masonry wall, conduit and box is laid and buried. Wire (THHN) is later fished through.

A labor-intensive method, but it beats dealing with drywall and lath & plaster (I hate that type of flimsy stuff). I'm sure that method is also used in the USA, no?

#118793 11/03/04 08:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
J
Member
No, Sven, we generally do not carve trenches into masonry. Either the wiring is placed in a space between layers of brick, and enter the back of the box, or the conduit is built into the conduit is placed as the wall is built.
For existing installations, the practice is to run metal conduit on the surface.
Our code does, technically, allow your "carve, bury, and cover" method, but I've never seen it used (except for very short runs).

#118794 11/14/04 05:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,498
T
Member
Quote
Wait, I thought the whole point with these terminal strips was so that you could join two wires together by inserting one wire through one end and the other through the other end and clamping down with the screws, making sure the wires don't poke out of the sides in order to avoid danger of electric shock.

That's what those choc blocks are really intended for, hooking up light fixtures or appliances. however, they're _not_ rated for the full 10 or 16A of house wiring, unless you put all wires under the same screw. I think they'Re only rated 6A side-to-side.

On a web site of a restoration project I saw the carve-and-conduit style usd in the US, however, go to www.pleasantplainsfarm.com
Long ago joe Tedesco also posted a pic of a piece of BX buried in plaster, acceptable new wiring.
Solid brick walls sure beat drywall or plaster&lathe anytime!
Need the right tools to work on it though. Drywall saw and fish tape won't get you too far, you'll need cold chisel, sledgehammer and maybe a Hilti. Every sparky here has at least basic knowledge of plastering, otherwise they'll be out of the job pretty soon... if you do any retrofit work there won't be a plasterer on the job who fixes the walls after you're done.

#118795 11/14/04 03:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Quote
@Paul: for the real old bakelite ones you'd need a hack saw! And the even older ones were made of porcelaine
Porcelain versions are still available for use in high-temperature areas such as the internal connections in heaters:

[Linked Image from tlc-direct.co.uk]

Regarding the method of connection of the strip connectors, I've used all three methods. For connections between cables within fixture boxes (splicing neutrals at a switch, for example) I strip the conductors to be long enough to be clamped by both screws and feed the wires in both sides or one side only, whichever is convenient for the particular application.

Use of one screw per conductor is typically found within an appliance, such as where a flexible supply cord is connected to the heat-proof internal wiring.

I've never heard of these connectors not being rated for the full current when used in this way.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 11-14-2004).]

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5