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I got a call from my brother in-law yesterday to see why his freezer stopped working.

So what was the problem?


Where you able to get some good conductor into the box?

Good morning Bob. Yes, they had a switch right above the receptacle, and thanks to poor workmanship, tghe failed cable wasn't stapled to the stud. I was able to hook on some new 12-2 and pull it through. All said I was done in about an hour.

It was sure spooky though, looking at how the wood paneling had already started to discolor and carbonize.

Good grief! That looks like it might've been a close one! I hate coming in on things & finding evidence that a burn was actually imminent under existing circumstances.....
Was the Slater push & pray connected or were the side terminals loose? This looks like copper, but I have to ask... Is it?

-Randy

See!! That's what happens when you install receptacles upside-down.

I hope you replace that cordcap
and did a breaker trip?

[This message has been edited by ComputerWizKid (edited 06-19-2004).]

The "neutral" is the burnt side here, correct?

Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy ..... Talk about lucky!

Yes I did replace the cord cap, and no, the breaker didn't trip...I would assume that is because, as TG pointed out, it was on the nuetral side. The conductors were actually copper. I think what was happening is that, if you notice, the receptacle is very close to the right side of the box. I think it had started arcing from teh nuetral to the box, and it just generated heat.

I'll tell you the scary part though...as I said, this was a relative of mine. There is no denying that this really could have started a fire. I mean, when I cut the paneling a little to install a new cut-in box, it just crumbled...it was that burnt. Anyway, the scary part is that we are all going on vacation next week. I really think that they could have came home from vacation and found that they had no home.

Ryan J wrote:



Ryan... Your ground & grounded phase are supposed to be at the same potential! If there was high resistance between the outlet terminal & the actual neutral wire, I can see were you're coming from.. but if you really think this was happening, I'd look a little closer at the service panel neutral/ground bonding & ohm out the neutral back to this point from there to make sure they are, in fact, at the same potential!

-Randy

What scares me is what you said about the panel crubling, now that's scary. I am interested in how it was the neutral that fried, you and Randy have got some good points though. I know a master electricain who is an electrical instructor at the community college that I am attending. He would sure be intrerested in this one, when I get a chance I will talk with him anout this, see what he says. I do agree with what Randy said though, a problem there is the only thing I can of that would make sense.

Maybe the hot and Neutral were reversed?

Though I can't tell the conductor type, I pulled a receptacle that looks very similar to this from my Grandmothers house. The culprit....aluminum wiring on a copper only rated receptacle. I kept the receptacle as a reminder and an object lesson for others. A loose copper conductor can have the same effect when under load.

Grounded conductor. Theory verses reality. At the panel the grounded and grounding are equal potential. At the receptacle with no load they are equeal. When a load is applied between the hot and the grounded the grounded conductor becomes hot for half of each cycle.
When the refrigerator would run the grounded conductor would have a different potential from the grounded box. This would allow for an arc, from the grounded to the grounding.
This came up at a training session when an inspector (multi-hat) asked why he sometimes got zapped touching a white, i.e. grounded wire.

There is no ground wire... probably why it didn't trip at all

I would venture an opinion like this.
Neutral connection at receptacle 'loose', and over time arcing from bad connection further deteriorated the condition. Heat transfer thru the recept transferred to the cord cap, causing further deterioration. Start-up cycles of the freezer added to the issue.

As to the cb not tripping...it's only monitoring the current on the 'hot' leg, and IMHO it's very doubtful that a fault to ground occurred in this situation.

I agree, because there is no ground wire in the box

*is scared* Whoa! We have those recepts. at my work. And the place was built 50's or 60's so IDK about the wiring situation

the proximity of the wall paneling also covers the edge of the box, also the device screws go thru the paneling then I imagine into the 6-32 holes, yeah didnt look like there was a ground pigtail to box either. was this grounding type recept. grandfathered in as a replacement, due to not widely available non-gr. type?

interesting? it looks to me like the recept. might have been rev. polarity. unless the burnt wire is also discolored and not also black. I put up a similar gfci that the cust. said "and the breaker never tripped?" so if polarity was correct and the box wasnt grounded what would open the circuit, or vica versa, as here nothing opened?

I put up a photo on electric photos but not sure how to start thread,for "gfci miswired"