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This box is a (Hubbell) Raco 3.5" "Ceiling Box".
They've been around since the days of knob & tube wiring.



Where would you use this particular box??...S



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-20-2003).]

See question #11: http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Education/Mike_Holt_Code_Q&A.htm

Substitute 314.16 for 370-16

Only on a ceiling fixture or wall sconce with a canopy that meets the wire fill requirements.

[This message has been edited by Gus1999 (edited 11-20-2003).]

Well, it's 4.0 cu in-so it's perfect for old fashioned 14-2 Romex with no ground.

I've seen lots of these above sinks in bathrooms on residential work.
Seems that darn plumber always vents straight up, and there's almost always a stud right there...S
TG, yes when they enter from a domed fixture.
Now, what about the ground wire in the 14-2 romex?? It doesn't count?



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-20-2003).]

Not if you cut it off before it enters the box...who needs a ground for a light fixture anyway?

(NOTE: That was supposed to be sarcasam...)

These things always seem to get added onto over time

"You know, I always wanted an outlet there...."

Now, let's deduct 1 conductor for the clamps
...S

I never use the 3.5" ones and never with clamps.

Ceiling fixture that lands on a joist and sconces that land on a stud.
They are some of the best support for heavier fixtures since the mounting point is centered on the box.

I've used these before, and reasoned that the Fixture Dome effectively adds volume to the box that can be divided up for conductor fill. It has been a solution for some tough situations.

But ... strictly speaking, 370-16(B)(1)Exception seems to say that the 'domed luminaire' or canopy space can only be used to avoid counting the fixture wires.

Bill

Bill
I respectfully disagree with the your interpretation of the canopies/domes.
370-16(a) permits using the volume of the canopy/dome. I believe the exception you are referencing is to allow for those fixture wires not to be counted as part of box fill.

Pierre

Pierre,

370-16(A) (and 314.16(A)) talks about "domed covers, extension rings, etc that are marked with their volume in cubic inches..".

I've never seen a fixture canopy that had its volume marked in cubic inches. If this is a 4 cu. in box what code section allows 3 #14s to be in it?

Bill

This came up before. I have also never seen a canopy with a volume indicated ?
However, wouldn't the volume be based on a (pancake) box with a blank cover installed?

The ones that I usually see are used in residential and are non metallic (without the clamps).

With that in mind, how do you view it as an inspector? What do you allow or not allow? I will permit (1) 14-2 cable and no more at the rough stage. My reasoning is that I see very few lights with the volume marked on the canopy, and I don't want people having to change out their expensive lights because the rough doesn't comply. Any thoughts on this?

Ryan,

Would you flag a 14/3 NM installation to a pancake for a ceiling fan?

This is commonly installed around here.

Yes I would, unless the installer could show me that the fan has a volume allowance in the canopy. Otherwise I would ask for a "4-O" box instead of a "3-O" box.

Are "pancakes" rated for a ceiling fan (50 lbs, off the top of my head)?

Thinkgood,

There are specific pancakes designed for fans and heavier fixtures.

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=292&FAM=RacoBoxes

Whew...S

The problem with these things is that they are often installed so that they are not flush with the wall surface.
Has anyone ever seen extension rings for them?

to install ceiling fans

Arlington's got kind of a unique box for use when the joist's right in the way. (They're a pretty innovative bunch).
www.aifittings.com/n_1.htm
Anybody tried them?..S

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-29-2003).]

Yes Ive used those "saddle" boxes before, they work rather well.