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#114795 06/28/03 10:42 PM
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Early frost-free refrigerators and 94¢ 'poke-wired' receptacles behind them were a bad combination.

#114796 06/29/03 07:05 AM
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Listings changed a while back to #14 only being able to be 'backstabbed' into devices, (where it had been #12 also)

somewhere a rationale exists for this, yet to me it must be inclusive of some study resulting in less of a body count with #14 installs

Q~ is such a cheesball design allowed elsewhere in the world?

just wondering...~S

#114797 06/30/03 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Guys:
Just a quick note.
Came across a "homeowner special" last week with my AHJ hat on...
Finished basement, no permits at original job; owner selling house; needed to get a permit and inspection. Had the H/O pull all the plates and devices to "see" the wiring. Damn if this guy didn't backstab #12 (NMC), and to top it off, he managed to backstab #12 THHN stranded from some wiremold runs. Couldn't take a pic, but it was close to TG's fry job.

TG: I hope you get the drift; a "bad" or questionable termination/connection WILL eventually show it's face. DEpendent on the load, and the duty cycle, it may be real soon, or a long time.

IMHO, If the area was being renovated, and the original cable passed muster, then it could be re-used. It must be properly protected by a CB. There are opinions as to doing this, but the "rehab" code in NJ allows it, to an extent. It is not a "standard" practice with most ECs to re-use old cable; most times in a kitchen reno, the "old" is #14, and the "new" has to be #12.

A penny saved sometimes, can lead to many dollars spent in the future.

I'm gettin of my soap box, and back to work.
John


John
#114798 06/30/03 06:40 PM
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Quote
Q~ is such a cheesball design allowed elsewhere in the world?

We don't use it here in the U.K. -- All receptacle and switch terminals are screw types, although they use a different arrangement to American types. (They're more like the way you would place a conductor under the end of a screw in a neutral bar rather than being wrapped around under the head.)

The "push-in" contacts are found in some appliances though, such as the trigger switch on power tools.

#114799 07/01/03 06:54 PM
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Paul:
I have to ask; the devices that you described, may be "available" here also, in our face and voltage configerations.
Are you refering to the conductor going "straight" into a "hole" at the back of the device, and then you tighten the screw which compresses the "hole" tight??

That may be a very poor choice of words, but I call those devices "spec" grade. They are available here, and they are more costly than the binding screw post, and the back stab devices. I like them, my men like them, and we use them most of the time. Ya get what ya pay for.
John


John
#114800 07/02/03 01:56 AM
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Quote
Are you refering to the conductor going "straight" into a "hole" at the back of the device, and then you tighten the screw which compresses the "hole" tight??

That may be a very poor choice of words, but I call those devices "spec" grade. They are available here, and they are more costly than the binding screw post, and the back stab devices. I like them, my men like them, and we use them most of the time. Ya get what ya pay for.

Those are the good ones. The crappy ones have a little spring clip inside to grab the wire. The screws on the side don't do anything here. Imagine the small amount of contact from the wire to the device, similar to that if a pair of wires are touching in one spot only. That small contact area can get really hot. Also makes for lights dimming and staying dim when a heavy load switches on.

#114801 07/02/03 06:56 AM
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Quote
Are you refering to the conductor going "straight" into a "hole" at the back of the device, and then you tighten the screw which compresses the "hole" tight??
That sounds a fair description. Here's a typical device:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

You can't see the line & neutral terminals for all the plastic surround, but they're the same type as the exposed grounding terminal.

Some of the more expensive versions have a "square" hole and instead of the end of the screw itself clamping the conductor in place, it compresses the wire(s) under a small square plate.

(No, the plate on the device isn't actually blue, it's just poor color rendition!)

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 07-02-2003).]

#114802 07/02/03 11:14 AM
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This is what I've learned from a couple of wiring devices catalogs.

The devices that allow the stripped solid wire to be poked in the hole and held in place with a spring-loaded contact are called "BACK STAB"

The devices that clamp the wire in place under a screw are called "BACK WIRE".

I really really like back-wire devices. Bending hooks and looping over a terminal screws can sometimes be a pain....

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 07-02-2003).]

#114803 07/02/03 06:48 PM
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Paul & Sven:
It all boils down to $$$$$
The "good ones"; "Backwire" "Spec" are pricier than the el-cheapo's, but IMHO well worth the additional cost. (Receptacles and switches)

Paul:
If yaou look at TG's photo on the top of this thread, our devices look like that; you insert the stripped conductor & tighten the screws, no looping required, although some die hards still loop them.

I gave up trying to send the picture. Maybe someday, time permitting, I'll master the digital camera, CD, and e-mail thing.
John


John
#114804 07/03/03 06:32 AM
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I have a box of hospital-grade Hubbell 5-15 receptacles which appear to have the same facility: Insert wire through hole on back, then the screw tightens a small clamp onto the conductor.

It's still a somewhat different design to the British equivalent though. These Hubbell devices will accept only one conductor per terminal. The British terminals pictured above will take two or three.

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