ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion Bad Wiring? .. What do you think?

Piece workers get paid per unit. If it passes inspection, it's done.
A lot of my beef has to do with the "combination inspectors". Like they say Jack-*** of all trades, Master of none.
These guys are at much to blame as the jerks that are doing the half-burro work.

Electure, DITTO
Most of the smaller towns have them.
I always thought it kind of odd when I would talk with some of those triple threat inspectors just to find out that they used to be a painter, roofer, or carpenter in the trades. They were tired of having too much time off and wanted something steady so here they are working for the local building dept as an inspector. All they had to do is take a few code classes on each trade and they're in! It used to amaze me when I would be installing something and they would ask what it was. ( Because they didn't know ) Who's supposed to be watching watching Who here?

Hey Wireman:
Try this one on for size...a couple of months ago, I saw a group of breakers, in a panel. Beside the breakers was written "lightning"...

Kinda scary...

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 02-19-2002).]

Mike-

"Lightning"???? Wow!! That is pretty scary. I wouldnt want to look inside that panel! I've seen a few good ones too, like "firnace", "garbidge diposal", and "garge."

Most of the panels that I saw in this development (I checked a bunch just to make sure!) are labelled "plugs + lights, kitchen, furnace, GFI, dryer." One thing I hate is "plugs and lights." I guess these guys dont know how to label a wire, not to mention "plugs and lights" is a Code violation!!! And "GFI"? Which one???

electure + wirewiz-

It makes me wonder who inspected these houses, if they go inspected at all! At the time, there were several hundred houses being built, so I imagine they werent inspected too carefully.

So with piece work, the more you install in a day, the more you make? Do they use piece work for rough-in wiring as well?

These pictures are just the tip of the iceberg. I dont even want to get into some of the wiring that the landscapers did on these places!

I think there is some confusion here about Calif. licensing requirements....speaking as a Licensed Calif. Electrician -

Calif. Does require ALL electrical contractors to be licensed, who then are supposed to supervise journeymen who supervise apprentices.

What is happening in Calif. (your reference to a couple of yrs. before Ca. starts licensing) is the Calif. Certification Program requirements for electricians. Under this program you have to document (through a state approved apprenticeship program) 8000 hrs. of training in various areas...residential, commercial, industrial, stockroom, conduit bending, etc....then you take a state certification exam. There's only one small glitch in this 'approved' apprenticeship program - there is only one school in the entire state that is approved other than the union....this is kind of like letting the fox watch the hen house....anyway...part 2 of your above thread...

what has been happening in Calif. is such a huge construction boom that the unions (hiring halls, etc.) could not supply all the electricians needed for all the work....so the union opened up their hiring hall to ANY person from out of state claiming electrical experience (as long as the union received some transfer fees + dues)...so we've had folks from all over the country coming to Calif. for the higher wages working on these construction jobs. In Calif. a General Contractor (vs. an Elect. contractor) can hire the other trades - he just calls up the union hall and depends on the hall to send over the 'qualified' electricians for the work required. Ultimately the General is responsible for the poor workmanship but he definitely is not qualified to be supervising the work.

I'm really curious about how this 'certification' will work out for the unions (they pushed this state legislation) - this will give them almost complete control over the electrical trades, but I have serious doubts as to how many will be able to pass the state certification exam .The union can rubber stamp the apprenticeship hours but the individuals will have to pass the exam on their own and I understand it will actually be pretty tough.

I really don't mean to bad-mouth the union in all of this; but the photos speak for themselves...and this is typical of other's work I've seen.

Then to push this thread a little further - we can try to blame the inspectors. What is also happening in Calif. is municipalities are 'bundling' all the inspectors into one "Combination" inspector (he has to know All the trades when doing an inspection)....And this inspector often only has 10-15 minutes to inspect the entire job-site! all trades! and of course these inspectors are notorious for being weakest in electrical.

dana-

Thanks for clarifying the situation regarding licensing. So if I understand correctly, CA requires all contractors to be licensed, but doesnt have the traditonal licensing requirements for electricians that 25 U.S. states have. Correct?

I dont know if the work in the pictures was done by a union contractor but I do know that at least one union contractor was wiring houses in this development. I do know the names of the companies that did the work above so if anyone lives near San Diego I can email them the names.


Anyway, I think this has sparked (no pun intended) a really interesting discussion. I didnt think I would get so much response when I posted them. I was really amazed when I first visited the west coast, initially at the volume of new homes being built and then at how bad this wiring is compared to the way I was taught. I later discovered that wiring like this is in literally thousands of homes in the west.

CTwireman, dana is correct. All Contractors in California have to be licensed. The individuals (Journeymen or apprentices) were not required to hold any type of certification until recently. So, all liability went back to the contractor. There was not any accountability on the individuals doing the work. I think that's why some of the workmanship is poor in some places.
I agree also, you can't blame the inspectors for the workmanship I just think that it compounds the problem sometimes.

I am curious who the contractors are if you would, email me.
Thanks,
wirewiz

wirewiz-
I agree that blaming the inspectors does compound the problem. But, I think we can lay blame across the board because everyone involved is cutting corners. In order to solve the problem, we have to start somewhere. The home builders and the electrical contractors are partly to blame.

But the inspector is the last line of defense against bad workmanship. Once the sheetrock goes up, everyone forgets about whats behind the walls until the trouble starts. So tougher inspections done by well-trained inpectors, along with stringent licensing tests, are two essential ways to solve the problem. Ultimately, I'm really looking for solutions here, and not just scapegoating.


By the way, those violations in the pictures could easily be fixed with a $.30 3M Stacker. And start using insulated staples!! We aren't talking about major $ to fix these problems.

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 02-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 02-20-2002).]

A Union housing contractor? In 2002?! And in San Diego County!

[This message has been edited by Nick (edited 02-20-2002).]

Nick-

Its true! I was somewhat surprised myself, because where I am from, the union never wires houses, or even does small jobs, for that matter. If youre interested in the name of said contractor I can email it to you.