ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Click Photo for a closer look


This was found in a Home that was purchased several years ago.

It was previously owned by an Electrical Engineer. This Home

had been inspected prior to purchase. In the years since the purchase

a Utility worker and an Electrician had also been in the panel and

not mentioned anything to the new owners.


What do you think?

You said all you needed to say when you mentioned the electrical engineer that owned this house. No insult intended to the EE's participating on this message board.

If this is the service panel, where is the service disconnect?

If this is a sub panel, where is the equipment grounding conductor & its busbar?

There is a violation for 2 conductors in one lug at the feed eand (bottom). Using a 3 phase panel in this installation may be a listing violation and I would be concerned about multiwire branch circuits overloading the shared grounded conductor.

But the worst part is that this is an FPE panel. Visit http://www.inspect-ny.com/ for plenty of horror stories.

Tom

Tom,

There is no disconnect. What you see is all there is. This person quite obviously got a used 3 phase panel from somewhere and installed it at home. Notice only about 1/2 the breakers are used.

I mean nothing against the EE's either, but some don't realize that there's more to this type of work than the theory they were taught in school.

Bill

For some reason or another it seems like the EE and some electricans beleive that it is OK just as long as it is their home. Howerever they fail to realized the potinal danger in their pruduent judement. Judging from what I see he or she had used a Used 3ph panel, which in not according to the code as well as no main, Egc. It really doesent supprise me to see this kind of thing. That guy proably was on the code making panel.
wayne.

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 04-07-2001).]

Wayne,

In case you're wondering, I removed the quote part from your post because having the photo twice in the post really slows down the page loading.

My first clue that something was up was seeing all the breaker space used and only about 10 cables going in. What would you say to convince the Homeowner that this is something that should be taken care of?

Bill

hmmmmm....
sparky;
"Sir, would you like to have this situation corrected?"
homeowner;
"what do you mean, an EE installed it, it's been fine for years!"
sparky;
"well, you see, there is no main disconnect, the panel is 3 phase, and you are single phase, plus it's a federal pacific!"
homeowner;( eyeballing quote)
"This place passed inspection when i bought it, and the power company AND an electrician have seen this and said nothing!"
sparky;
"well, obviously they simply did not concern themselves with the potential hazards here"
homeowner ;( bald spot glowing bright red)
" well, i'm not going to concern myself with you, hit the bricks!!!"

Sparky,

Your 'Panelside Manner' needs work!

I'm workin' on it Boss!!!

Are those wires sticking out of the front near the top unterminated grounds? I also see a single conductor (?) stapled down on the right side of the board. This panel must have been a "deal" from somebody who had demoed it ("that's right, I can give it to you for only $20"). They should have thrown it the dumpster where it belongs.

electure,

The wires sticking out are new circuits not yet connected to breakers. The wire on the right side is the #6 Alum to Waterpipe. I'm thinking that He probably got this from work, maybe out of the dumpster like you said.

Bill

What some people won't do to save buck!! This same person would likely sue the panel manufacture for a bad product if his house burnt down.

rhagfo, this is a bad product! The C/B's sometimes will not trip! See Tom's post and link above for more info. (These FPE Stab-lok panels are still available for new installs and in widespread use...in Mexico)

electure,

Are they still manufacturing these? Or is there still some old stock available? I thought they were out of business.

Bill

Bill, still made in Canada as "Federal Pioneer" by Schneider.I've got some Stabloks in the shop manufactured by Challenger. The fellow that told me about the ones in Mex. worked for the utility co. there, and said Stabloks were abundant. (FPE used to have plants in Mex, Canada, & Austria, maybe somebody bought the facilities?). As fast as these companies are traded around, seems like a breaker might just pour out of your next box of Rice Krispies!

Opened up my Electrical Contractor magazine and lo and behold! an ad for FP switchgear...

Is this the same company? I thought they were out of business too?!?!?!

Just saw more of these monsters @ the Home Depot by "Unique Breakers Inc." (China) No UL,over $50 for a 2 pole 20A and just yesterday read something released by UL warning that there were fake UL stickers on some by this co. down in Fla. home centers.

Wow!,

Anyway, this will remain as is. Probably a Money issue right now. Interesting though, the new Kitchen Countertop alone (it's pretty small actually) costs more than the whole Service change would.

Sound Familiar?

Bill

no prob to the average Joe...

but to our trade its UGLY,,,,

UUUUUGGGGGGLLLLYYYY!!!!!

Bill,now that you mention it, my wife didn't invite her friends over to see her new service (we actually had an FPE previously), but she sure was proud of that new cooktop I put in. Beauty is in the eye...

electure,

You're right for sure!

Hey, when my kids were little they used to take everyone to show them our new toilet seat!


Bill