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#111693 02/02/07 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
A very good point, Brian. One of the reasons I posted these pics was as an alert: don't let a pretty label fool you into turning off your brain. The label may be false, or the product modified.

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#111694 02/02/07 05:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
E
Member
ETL certifies sketchy stuff? Funny, most of the unsafe products in the recall section of this forum have the UL mark on them. It is true that Intertek will get a job finished (pass or fail) faster and cheaper than UL, so on projects where cost is critical UL may be excluded from the running. I've personally found Intertek/ETL to be very tough when making technical judgements. Too tough sometimes. I've frequently heard former and current UL employees state UL's superiority over Intertek (never with concrete examples cuz they pulled the criticism out of their butts or employee training manual). Having dealt with incompetence and sloth at UL, I find it pretty laughable. I can get a project completed at Intertek in less time than it takes to get a quote and a schedule from UL. And I can actually talk to the lab technician or engineer that is working on my project - direct dial even. Its almost as if the people at Intertek know how to pick up their feet when they walk. Or maybe they just have a clue on how to run a business. If you happen to visit a UL office while your product is being tested, don't bother asking the technician if a particular test passed or not. He isn't allowed to answer that kind of question, but he is allowed to tell you he can't answer. And don't count on the answer and advice from his boss being correct either. Certainly don't redesign your product on his boss's verbal input...just sayin.

Damn, there goes my future with UL...

#111695 02/02/07 08:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 174
K
Member
The label is acurate, if misleading. It does say "ETL Listed Attachment Plugs and Receptacles", which I take to mean the plug and the receptacles are listed as individual items, and that seems pretty reasonable.

However, what it does not say is that the entire assembly is a listed unit.

[This message has been edited by kale (edited 02-02-2007).]

#111696 02/05/07 01:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,438
Member
Quote
"The green wire is to be connected to grounded metal"

Who wants to bet it'll get stuck to one of the washers hose bibs with plumbers strapping if attached to anything? [Linked Image] With the use of plastic plumbing lines nowadays, where would one find "grounded metal?? On a 3 wire dryer plug I dont remember if there's anything bonding the yoke to the neutral/ground terminal.. If there isn't, and the outlet is in a plastic nail on box, the face plate screws wouldn't be of any use either!

[This message has been edited by Lostazhell (edited 02-05-2007).]

#111697 02/05/07 01:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 65
B
Member
Quote
The label is acurate, if misleading. It does say "ETL Listed Attachment Plugs and Receptacles", which I take to mean the plug and the receptacles are listed as individual items, and that seems pretty reasonable.

However, what it does not say is that the entire assembly is a listed unit.
I think it is listed as a unit, but only to UL 498, which may not fully test the assembly.

It is a bit like the "surge suppressors" that were listed to UL 1363, but not UL 1449. It doesn't fully cover the complete product.

Quote
Who wants to bet it'll get stuck to one of the washers hose bibs with plumbers strapping if attached to anything?

Someone will decide the green wire is "in the way" and will cut it off.

#111698 03/14/07 08:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,253
D
djk Offline
Member
I would be very supprised if that's a genuine Miele part. Miele are an *extremely* high end German domestic appliance manufacturer and their products are normally top notch from every perspective, including electrical.
They quite litterally pride themselves on the quality of their machines, components and engineering.

I would bring the item in question to the attention of Miele in Germany by email. ( info@miele.de ) to ensure it gets read in English perhaps CC it to Miele here in Ireland info@miele.ie

It's very odd that that label does not contain Miele's logo too
[Linked Image from opentext.com]

Their products usually have the following codes:
Type: (short code with dashes)
Model: (longer code with dashes)
Serial: (long numeric code)

Is it possible that some local re-distributor is knocking together boxes to make the installation easier?

The grounding arrangement is, indeed, very odd.
Surely there's a ground on the socket outlet ?!

Normally, a European washer or dryer is connected to a 13amp (UK/IRL) or 16amp (Rest of EU) outlet. (230V 50Hz) [typically protected by a 30mA RCD [GFCI] and on a 16A or 20A radial (UK's different due to the ring circuits - 13A fuse in plug, 32A fuse on ring circuit).
Miele's North American washers have a heafty internal heater, so their US model operates on a 240V 60Hz US dryer circuit.
US washers typically just use hot water from the tank.

Most European washing machines have abandoned their hot water connector.
The reason for this is:
1) They use so little water for the wash that the water would be still running cold by the time the machine had filled!
2) They use a "profile wash" where water is gradually heated to maximise enzyme activity in the detergent (there's a euro standard for this!)
3) It means the wash temp. can be accurately controlled from 30C to Boiling.

Older machines always had hot and cold fill as they used considerably more water during the wash cycle (even in Europe)

#111699 03/14/07 11:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 65
B
Member
Take a look at this spec sheet from the Miele website: Spec sheet
Page 4 shows the "Easy Installation Kit," either 057B (NEMA 10-30) or 060B (NEMA 14-30).

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