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Afghan Roger


An 800 amp transfer switch:





Junction box feeding an exhaust fan.

EWWW!!!!

Was that splice in picture #2 really coated with "hot melt" glue??????

Or what is that gooey-looking stuff?

The best part of the transfer switch is how the green/yellow wire is so neatly taped off.

Ditto about the ground in the xfer switch... Those conductors seem a little on the light side for 800A

Tell me if I'm seeing this right... Did someone come across that burnt connection in the 2nd pic and just cover it with some hot glue???? Are wirenuts or choc-blocks or whatever you guys use getting scarce?

BTW, Welcome to ECN Roger

-Randy

I want to say that the "hot glue" is actually the remains of a "choc block" (euro style barrier strip.. note the brass screw near the red wire in the lower part of the blob.

Pic #1: Those wires are rated for 800 amps?

I don't think so...

Pic #2: It looks like there weren't any wirenuts in the vicinity when this box was made up. Did they use wax instead?

That has got to be a nightmare to go to another country and figure out their electrical code, or lackthereof. What I mean is learning the color coordination of conductors in another country, like Afghanistan, has got to be a PITA.

Welcome to ECN.

Oh....my.....GOD!

The second picture of the junction box is a "survivor" another one close by actually caught fire, good thing it was during the day so we were able to put the fire out and had minimal damage to the structure. This one was really close to going into flames as well, we have since disconnected all the exhaust fans and are trying to get some listed components to do the repairs.

Most of the components available here are either made in Iran or Pakistan, some kind of rubber insulation on the wire and of course no markings at all.

Recip's are European in design and made who knows where.

I have been here 6 months now and are finally getting some good stuff shipped in from the states. Our site is supplied by generator power only. We are on a contract that installs armor on wheeled vehicles for use in the Middle East.

I will submit 2 more pictures.

Roger

I see melted connectors in light fittings here quite regularly, where someone has not realized that they won't stand up to the heat. I've seen some in which the plastic is just a blob and the metal connector is completely bare.

Here's what the blocks look like before they melt:


(Named "Choc Blocks" because in the "old days" they were commonly a dark brown chocolate color -- And were much heavier and more tolerant of heat too.)


Looks like normal British colors: Red/yellow/blue for A/B/C phases respectively, black neutral. At least the colors are all there, but bearing in mind that sometime last year there was that pic from Iraq where they'd used black as a phase and one of the other colors as neutral, maybe this is anybody's guess.


If the rest of wiring is like the junciton for the fan, it would probably be redundant anyway. It doesn't look like they've run any earth (grounding) wires in the conduit.

Roger has sent us a couple more.

So then...how are people supposed to splice wires to the lights, besides using ceiling roses with the terminal blocks in them and/or junction boxes?

Or is there a more heat-resistant better-quality version?

A few observations, from the time I spent overseas in the '80's.

While there are such conectors made from bakelite...nothing is proof to an over-size bulb.

The wiring system used typically has plastic boxes, plastic conduit (similar to 'smurf tube'), and all connections are made on one piece of 'block.' The different sections are not normally in contact with each other.
This means that the block can bounce around all over the place, and never short to anything- unless the plastic has completely metled away- at which point the entire box and wiring is also probably toasted. Then again, that's where fuses earn their pay.

Which brings up another quirk of this system....their fuses are typically snap-in ceramic blocks, wits replacable bits of nichrome wire as the "element." One can easily replace the wire with a higher-rated one, so there is nothing to prevent over-fusing. Since the service conductors are typically uninsulated steel wire, one can easily make an "infinite" fuse.
Overfusing may also result in a melted 'choc block.' Indeed, since the box itself seems undamaged, that is likely what happened here!

A typical home is often a completely uninsulated masonry shell, with a tile floor. Central heating, as we know it, is rare. No surprise, then, that light sockets are often used for space heaters, which leads to over fusing, and so on.....

The color coding doesn't seem to be entirely British. With the red, yellow and black wire comes a downsized light blue wire which seems to be a neutral. Also there seems to be some very recent wiring with harmonized Euro color coding (black, brown and grey phases).

There are heat-resistant silicone choc blocks and for extreme locations you can still get the old ones made of porcelaine. My dad uses those above his recessed LV halogen lights in an insulated ceiling. Before he did so, I saw similar choc blocks quite often. Thankfully it's fiberglass insulation, which is non-inflammable.

@Renosteinke: about which countries specifically are you talking about?

Regarding the transfer switch: as it's hard to guess the size of the enclosure the wires might be big enough anyway. Emphasis on _might_

Porcelain types are employed in high-temperature locations, such as inside heaters:




I can't speak for the Middle East, but the old rewireables have gradually fallen out of use for new installs in Britain over the years, with breakers or cartridge fuses now the norm. It's true that on an economy install they were still being fitted new as recently as the 1980s though, and of course there are still many in service. Wylex (one of our commonly used makes of panel) still makes replacement carriers for rewireables too, although so far as I'm aware they are the only company still making them.


Well caught -- I hadn't noticed before that the blue feeder appears to be smaller than the others. Also, the black cable from the left-most conduit is marked with blue tape.

The conduit to the right of that one also appears to be just 3 conductors (excluding the unconnected ground!), so it's more likely to be 3 phases than 2 phases plus neutral.

Still, it appears that they've used black as neutral in the smaller conduits. It appears to be rather a mess in color-code terms.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 02-04-2006).]

That's for sure! However, not noticeably worse than the mess I found in our own house today...
The worst I found is the note scribbled on a basement wall next to a junction box: "Blue - Neutral
White - switch wire
Bare - P"
If there's actually a bare phase somewhere I'm not that surprised we've got some intermittent shorts...

So....what do the light switch, lampholder and wall socket fittings look like?

IF that's how the main stuff is, I wonder what shape the outlets are in.

More from Afghan Roger

WOW! Makes me feel blessed to have 4 breaker houses and 11 supply houses in my cell phone!

I'm afraid to ask how much current is going through all that stuff or what it's all running!

Here the colors seem to be standard European predating the last round of harmonization. Two black and one brown for phases.

Regarding the first picture again... no, no way those wires are able to carry 800amps. The way the strands look just doesn't seem right, besides I guess any electrician with some sense in his head would run several parallel conductors instead of a single big one for 800 amps. Is it actually 80A? That might just be possible with the visible wires.

The line side of those breakers those look hefty... that _could_ be a few hundred amps bus bar!

Could you give us any further info, like breaker ratings, close-up pictures of the breakers?

Maybe the main breaker feeding that bus ( 400A ?) has been tweaked right down to the value of the by-passed breakers ( 250A ?)

Probably not though

Thats the worst copper bar work I've ever seen. Unfilled holes in the bars and half-assed shrouding. The whole lot has been made by someone that doesnt own a ruler.

The top two left breakers are 200A, center one is 250A and bottom middle is 400A. And yep, the bus is home made by the local "Electrical Contractor". This whole system is total trash and we have had one fire because of it. We are in a lawsuit with the original contractor, think they are out of Pakistan and are suing them for a total rebuild.

Roger

Looks like typical ... work


(Note : I removed the company name off from this one so there is no need to call that company name at all.
Merci.)