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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,682 Likes: 3
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 105
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aww... you should have taken some "before" pictures too
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
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This IS the "before" pictures!!! Can't you tell that crack in the second picture needs to be caulked?
This is a very typical service in my neighborhood. The vertical conduit ran through a concrete pad. When the pad settled it pulled the conduit out of the meter socket. I did a service across the street last year that had done the same thing.
The distribution panel is a Federal Pacific. The electrical contractor saved where he could, as breakers were available at the time.
This was a pretty good job except the commute was a killer (90 seconds).
I was going to post some "after" pictures, but I'm not sure I want the vultures picking on my bones.
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Hi Dave, What's the white wire coming from the top right switch down to the neutral bar for?? (4th picture). ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/confused.gif)
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,443 Likes: 3
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That's not a neutral for a GFCI is it,
Electure?.
Just a wild guess.
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Joined: May 2004
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That's two different wires, guys. It does look like one, but they must cross on the right to look like one. The upper connection was a 240 volt circuit for the clothes dryer.
Dave
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Joined: Feb 2003
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The pipes pill out of the meters around here too. They say with groung freezing things can move around a bit. Plus not compacting the soil. We take those uot and put in a underground pedistal.
Besides the meter did you pass your inspection Dave? Doesent anything pass in Crystal Lake?
Tom
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Joined: Oct 2000
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2 more from Dave: ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Images/Resi_Upgrade5.JPG) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Images/Resi_Upgrade6.JPG)
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Joined: May 2003
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Is that a new idea on phase id? Black, black, black, black, black, black, red, red.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: May 2004
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My work passes everywhere,Tom, doesn't yours? The colors are the different wire guages.
Dave
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Joined: Aug 2002
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I personally don't like the tie wraps. It looks nice but hard to change a wire later on.
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Joined: May 2003
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Dave, the panel with the phasing issue wouldn't fly here. It would have to be A - B, (black - red) left to right, top to bottom. Service, feeder, and branch circuits. It's really common requirement in most areas. So all A phase black, all B phase red. Even two wire circuits.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 449
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Nice job, Dave. I'd be in trouble e57. I pull thwn in emt for a lot of my homeruns and I use red, black, yellow, pink, purple, orange, blue and brown for circuit ID purposes. Phase ID here only applies to the line side conductors(feeder/SE) of a panel whether they are 3 phase or single phase.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Looks good. I too would skip the ty wraps. What are you guys talking about "phasing issue"?
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Joined: May 2003
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It's not NEC, but common practice. For us in SF it is required to phase all circuits. This is an example of our local code.
210-5(c). Add the following new section:
(c)Ungrounded Conductors. Underground conductor insulation shall be color coded as follows:
(1)One-hundred-twenty/two-hundred-forty-volt 3-wire circuits - “A” phase black, “B” phase red; 120/208 volt 4-wire 3-phase wye circuits - “A” phase black, “B” phase red, “C” phase blue; 120/240 volt 3-phase delta circuits - “A” phase black, “B” (high leg) phase purple, “C” phase red; 277/480 volt 4-wire 3-phase wye circuits - “A” phase brown, “B” phase orange, “C” phase yellow.
(2)Conductors for switch legs may be of a different color than the phase conductor other than green, white or gray when suitably identified at pull, junction and outlet boxes with marking tape, tagging or other equally effective means.
(3)Conductor insulation shall contain the applicable color pigment for circuit wire #14 AWG through #10 AWG. Ungrounded conductors #8 AWG and larger and ungrounded conductors of any size in cable assemblies may be pigmented colors other than green, white or gray, provided they are suitably identified at pull, junction and outlet boxes with marking tape, tagging or other equally effective means.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Mark, since this is a single phase system all conductors would need to be either black or red the way I read the SF code. There isn’t an A and B phase. When you install NM cable are you required to change the black wires to red in just the panel or every box they run to?
I actually like using ty-wraps but only a couple per side. They are easy to cut off later if needed.
Curt
Curt Swartz
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Joined: May 2003
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Yes, on the panel, raceway, and boxes. I usually try to pull only 3-wire to panels so it's not that bad, and use the red in the first box until they seperate. Same idea for 4-wire.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 650
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You'd think that in a market as large as San Francisco, that someone would be making up NM with Red/White/Bare.
-Jon
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Dave, nice job. Gives new meaning to 110.12.
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Joined: May 2004
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Thanks capt al, I was just about to state my regrets on posting after pictures to a tough audience.
Dave
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Purty job, Dave!
I like the way nylocks (ty-wraps)look for new panels, but agree as a remodel guy they can be a pain.
It's still better than the average rat's nest of wire we all see.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Joined: May 2004
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We go by the NEC here regarding wire colors. My generous use of wire ties comes from my background in wiring machine controls. I used stranded wire on this job which doesn't stay put very well. I also do a lot of remodeling and could remove all these ties in a minute.
Dave
P.S. Some final comments before we let this thread die are:
I used a 2" nipple even though it's only 100-amp in case it got changed out later to a 200-amp service, which are getting more common here. I used duct seal in the nipple after taking this picture.
I plugged the four mounting holes with fender washers even though the holes aren't quite as large as a 1/2" knockout.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Nice looking job Dave. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/smile.gif) Russell
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Looks good! I like seeing 'before' and 'after' pics of just about anything. Amazing. This really looks better.
"Live the dream, you only get one chance."
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
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Dave: I'll agree; it is a very nice looking job. More installs should look this good!
I'm interested in the construction of the service to the meter outside, since I have never seen such an install in my part of the country. With the bottom end of the raceway buried below ground level (and in contact with the ground), what do think it's life expectancy will be? Also, Is there somewhere a transition from UG conduit to this raceway, and where does it take place? Just curious...
Mike (mamills)
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Joined: May 2004
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This is a typical installation around here, Mike. The service is underground and the POCO brings in a triplex (direct burial) into this pedestal type meter-socket. This meter-socket is essentially back-to-back with the distribution panel in the attached garage. A more typical installation in this area would probably be into a full basement, where you would need a 90 degree sweep into the distribution panel. Often the services are overhead rather than underground.
Dave
(edit) PS I've dug up these pedestal type meter-sockets that were installed 30-40 years ago and they're still in good shape. The paint may not look good, but there are no holes in the metal.
[This message has been edited by Dave55 (edited 10-15-2004).]
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![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Images/Resi_Upgrade1.JPG)
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![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Images/Resi_Upgrade3.JPG)
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