ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum Holey Panel

(Courtesy of Joe Tedesco)

Gotta love the "ample" wire bending space in these panels.

How did this junk ever get listed?

(Panel maker's name omitted to protect the guilty.)

Are those scorch marks I see on the bottom right-hand corner?

I'd love to know the brand of the panel, that way we know to avoid buying it!

Holey Panel & Holy Smoke

How did this stuff ever get listed? Look at Zinsco and then ask the same question.

looks like the cement slab below sunk causing the fittings to pull out of the enclosure , common on long island usually 2-3 years after the pour..

Looks like a GE All-In-One. Atleast thats what those slim "mini's" lead me to believe.
But the bottom 2 pole is a Cutler Hammer.

It is GE, full of stinkn' twins too.

So, how much wire bending space is required? In the '99 NEC, it's determined by Table 373-6(a)

Only 1-1/2" is required for the size of conductors here if they're #8 or #6, 2" if a #4 or#3. This provides that and more.
That's how it gets listed.
(BTW, these surface enclosures are basically the same design as the semi-flush version, made to fit in the space of a normal 16"OC stud bay)


As for the twin C/B's, these GE combination services are listed for their use, and I've not personally ever had to replace one that's burned up like a Zinsco.

The problem here was not the manufacturer,but the installer that slapped in the 1" PVC without a locknut (it would have pulled the concentric KO out if there was one), and wasn't careful about how he routed his wire to the C/B that really doesn't belong in this panel.(Besides being not listed for the purpose) The GE's have a little cross tab on the bus, and I don't think a CH has the slot to accept it. They won't stab on the bus all the way, so some guys just break off the cross-tabs, throw them in and use the deadfront to hold them in place.

Everything was probably fine until this Turkeylips came along
Maybe a pool/spa installer that "does it all"?




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-27-2004).]

turkeylips ??? Thats a new one for me. It is fitting though as that Cutler-Hammer 2 pole does not belong there. Also expansion fittings would have worked nicely in this installation. We use them in the northeast due to frost heaving the ground.

Al

I took a look at a C-H BR230 and it will"fit" in a GE loadcenter,the "t" slots are molded in,I used to have a couple of ITE Q2020s that were made to fit a GE panel.(It had to be a lot more work than it was worth)

NORCAL: "Look at Zinsco and ask the same question"!! Thanks!! I fell out of my chair laughing!!

This is a prime example of how just because the Code allows it doesn't mean it's right. Even though these panels do comply with the bending space in 373-6(a) (Thanks, electure! )it is almost impossible to get to the noodles and egc's without an Indiana Jones style dig! And to make everthing dress down neatly? Fuddgettaboutit!

Turkeylips? How about jackalope? (A polite way to call someone a you-know-what-up in mixed company.)

I spent the majority of a day at my parent's old house untangling the rat's nest from their GE panel. Found some loose connections in the process.

(I'm gonna have to dig out my 2002 NEC from storage.... )

[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 11-27-2004).]

I was told by the contractor that this was a work in process and that should explain the open knockouts and the unsecure pipe. He didn't mention the arcing that was present and I would have to presume that it came from working on the changeout hot before he decided to disconnect the power in the utility vault (without authorization I understand)and complete, and re-energize, their work. I didn't observe any means to secure the pipe inside of the box so I must presume that the intent was to disconnect everything again later and secure all of the loose fittings and close the extra openings. I was informed that the box was suitable for inset or surface mounting and should have been weather resistive enough to meet requirements. I was not able to get manufacturer information as I was only on site to document the installation as a courtesy. The AHJ apparently had not inspected any of the work up to the time that I was asked to take the photos. ERFERTT

It looks like an inset box similar to a type we use here.
Do yours have the same sort of knock-outs at the top as at the bottom?.
What's that brown(?) wire coming out through that knock-out without a bush in it?.

The "brown" looks like a bare cu gec. I still see no reason for wiring things up without the locknuts unless he forgot (yep, I have done that with both locknuts and connector backshells...)

Trumpy, "Informed" probably wasn't the right choice of words on my part for this installation, "Misinformed" could fit or that it was "expressed" would probably be more accurate. I would have liked to have gotten more information on the product and the installation, but I had a very thin invitation and was out of my jurisdiction so I was more of a casual observer than a participant.

that's just someone in a hurry as usual.