ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum See anything wrong here?

Where do You start ?? Must not own any side cutters !
Around here, I would install a Disc, & run flex to the Waterheater. Makes a nice looking installation.
Is the romex #10 ??

How could anyone walk away from this?

Always nice to leave the covers off of the elements. No one would ever put their hand near there.

Do we know this is complete?

The breaker can be the disconnect.

It is tough to give answers without knowing the details.

Bob

Bob:

This work was what the AHJ found during the Final.

Your opinion of what you see wrong here will be appreciated.

Well if this is what it looked for the final the inspector should fail it.

The only reason I can say for sure would be lack of support of the NM 334.30 and the open cover that Capt. Al mentioned 110.27(A).

The other issues, correct wire temp rating and lack of disconnect can not be commented on from this picture alone.

Bob

Bob: Discussion!

That's healthy, and that is what we do here!

I make comments all of the time to help people understand the subject of the installation.

Pictures are always helpful, but cannot show every single item.

Without knowing the conductr size, here's a quick take...

Failure to secure NM cable within appropriate distance... (336-18 '96 NEC)

Failure to secure/support NM cable @ required intervals along run...(336-18 '96 NEC)

Failure to protect NM cable from physical damage... (336-6(b) '96 NEC)

Unprotected access to equipment (failure to install in an approved manner)... (422-6 '96 NEC)

Doug you are Chicago sparky right? As such you may not be used to seeing NM but it is often run exposed.

In my opinion if it was supported properly without the loop to the floor, physical damage would not be an issue at least here in MA and RI.

Bob:

Although allowed to be used for a fixture whip up to 4 feet, the code says the:

"Romex cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.", so it is not really allowed without this support.

The NEC is used Nationwide, not just in the States you mention, and have amendments to the NEC as well!

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-06-2004).]

If this is a new installation, wouldn't the romex be Orange ?
Personally,I wouldn't install this without a Disconnect. They are cheap,& make a nice transition to a short piece of flex for the Heater.
That last 3-4 ft of NM just doesn't look neat, & secure when it goes straight to the water heater.

I understand that Joe and if you staple the NM down the angled beam of the ceiling then to the 2 x 4 to the closet point of the water heater you could meet that requirement you could also run a clip into the water heater with a tek screw close to the connector in order to have support within 12"

When was the last time you actually inspected a job as the AHJ?

Bob:

I am an Active Member of the IAEI and not currently working an an AHJ. I offer, and also make on-site inspections during many of my on-site seminars Nationwide, and sometimes they involve new construction or old work.

Are you asking about the last time I made and inspection because I sound too picky!

Megawatt

I hear you and that is a nice job.

What I am talking about is what the NEC actually requires and what NEC sections apply to the job in the picture.

We could run PVC coated rigid metal conduit all the back to the panel and use a NEMA 4X disconnect switch. Overdoing it is allowed and easy. What is hard is knowing what is actually required.

Most of the jobs I work would specify a disconnect at the unit with 3/4" flex to the unit.

Bob

LOL

Very perceptive.

I think you would find yourself challenged by electricians like myself or electricmanscott with some of your hardline positions.

It would be interesting to say the least.

Bob:

Just remember, the "bottom line" is always drawn by the AHJ.

Why is so hard for you too agree with the rules of the code?

You like to do it your way, and I do it my way, so what's the problem?

Why don't you invite me to make a "friendly" inspection someday, and don't worry about the envelope, I will do it for free!

PS: I will put out a call to the Wiring Inspectors in the area, and see if they would allow me to tag along, or maybe you have a very special job that you are proud of that you can pick out for us to look at!

Can't beat that, or can we pick an address from a hat?

Joe,
Not true. It is drawn by the courts after the EC sues the AHJ. There are a number of case where the AHJ had to pay for the excess costs he or she caused due to "aggressive" code enforcement.
Don

Don:

I agree, that is true in many areas!

Please explain "aggressive" code enforcement?

Just because I do not agree with your idea of what the code is, or should be, has nothing to do with me agreeing with the NEC.

I respect the NEC and the people that make it.

Certainly there are code sections that I do not understand the reasoning behind but I will follow them.

I have misinterpreted the NEC in the past and I am sure it will happen again.

Please show me where that has occurred in this thread?

Bob:

The title of this particular forum may have been misunderstood here.

I have always posted a picture or pictures according to the title of this forum:

"What's Wrong With This Picture?" for over 3 years now.

Photo Violations, courtesy of Joe Tedesco and www.JoeTedesco.com

I will continue to do that! Thanks for all of your comments.

Joe,
Unreasonable interpretations and enforcement of rules that only exist in the mind of the inspector.
Don

Besides the electrical issues, they haven't strapped the water heater to the structure.

I certainly hope so, you have a lot to offer the members here.

Bob

Are we limited to electrical issues with this installation?

PEX water piping probably isn't allowed within the first 18" of water piping to/from the water heater. Lack of leak pan under the water heater. Is the TP relief valve piped outside the structure(or at least to a "safe" location)? The water heater doesn't appear to have flooring under the back edge of the base. Is there framing behind the heater to keep it from falling backwards?

steve

My first thought was that the plumbing looks awful. I don't know much about the code for it but it wouldn't pass my inspection as a prospective homwowner. It took a second look to notice the 10 foot loop of romex powering the sucker. One of the things that really bothers me is its all stuff that could have EASILY been done much better. What do you think, another 1/2 hour on the whole job to have it the way it should be?

I am not a plumbing inspector but shouldn't there be a drip pan under the water heater? I think it is required when the water heater is on a second floor.

not to say that this installation is correct but, is it possible the wire was stapled up, and the plumbers took it down because it was "in the way"?

[This message has been edited by trekkie76 (edited 09-11-2004).]