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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 30
R
Member
Interesting that this topic comes up.

This is that I do for a living.

How many outlets per cube, how many curciuts???

As you all knoe most partitioned cubes come in panels. 1ft to 4 ft. each panel can have as much as two receps. but most cubes are small and any "returns" aren't powered witch leaves a very small amount of wall space....
But I digress. If we are installing brand new Herman Miller, the cost of an outlet power strip built in is 165.00 that gives you two duplexes per side.
So most installed only get one per cube.
three curciuts max per whip (a/b/c) three phase. each whip cost 185.00
So as you can see geting electricty to the whip is not the issue.

Also the service panels are problematic.
We had one building that required four panels to be install just for the cubes.
In existing buildings without such..is very expensive....

But lets talk old used cubes without whips.
Very popular these days because of the .COM collapse used product is very easy to get, but hard to install correctly.

Having an electrican hard wire greenfield yo a duplex box is very expensive times several dozen cubes.

We whould blame the manufactures of the cubes for charging outlandish prces and being so quick to discontinue lines of product so quickly.

just my thoughts.


[This message has been edited by RandyO (edited 12-17-2002).]

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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 174
K
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Protecting electronic equipment is very necessary, and this is one way of doing it. The problem arrises when they are plugged end to end or in a snakes nest under the desk where the cords get abused.
Surge protection receptacles are available, but they are expensive. A duplex TVSS receptacle lists for more than $63.00.

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
N
Member
Randy O and kale
The NEC does not use cost as a safety consideration. A correctly wired and safe installation has inherant limits on the amount of load placed on any one circuit. The continual misuse of these strips, because owners/ managers and others who are primarly concerned with saving a dime, has caused problems for the users, and maintence people for a long time.
It will not change until those in the business educate the owners/managers about the safety risks. Those who help these "save a dimers" get by are part of the problem. If it costs a lot to retro fit a cubicle layout properly, that cost should be part of the bid. [Linked Image]


ed
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
excuse me if i simply barge into this thread guys, you see the former thread seems to have been deleted in the middle of my post, quite irritating.......

Joe this article takes the cake.

the very same people who would allow x-cords and power strips are now putting then down...

our tax dollars at work eh??
[Linked Image]

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Quote

NEWS from CPSC
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 24, 1999
Release # 99-069 CPSC Consumer Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: Ken Giles, (301) 504-0580 Ext. 1184


CPSC Warns Consumers About Faulty Extension Cords, Power Strips and Surge Protectors
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is warning consumers about millions of faulty extension cords, power strips and surge protectors that pose a fire, shock and electrocution danger. Since 1994, CPSC has announced 25 recalls involving 2 million extension cords, power strips and surge protectors because they have undersized wires, loose connections, faulty components or improper grounding. The defects in these products can result in fires or pose a shock or electrocution hazard to consumers.

2 million in 8 years? does anyone else here see this as a major failure of the NRTL's ???

Quote

In 1997, CPSC began an investigation to monitor the extension cords, power strips and surge protectors sold in stores across the country. CPSC investigators inspected products sold through discount stores, mass merchandisers, dollar stores and hardware chains. After collecting suspect samples from 83 locations around the country, investigators found that 72 percent of the samples failed to meet current safety standards. CPSC also worked with U.S. Customs to monitor the extension cords, power strips and surge protectors shipped to U.S. ports. Many of the recent recalls of these cords were the result of this investigation.

excuse me, i have not read any newdiclaimers on packaging here, or perhaps i have missed the 1/16" print????

Quote

In 1996, electrical cords and plugs were involved in about 7,100 fires resulting in 120 deaths or about 32 percent of all deaths associated with residential electrical system fires. In 1997, more than 12,000 people were treated in hospital emergency rooms for electrical burns and shocks and about 2,500 people were treated for injuries associated with extension cords.

i see, and AFCI's are what in realation to these stat's? can you say "wag-the-dog" ??

Quote

CPSC is working with U.S. Customs to identify shipments of substandard cords before they reach store shelves. CPSC investigators are continuing to monitor the cords currently being sold in stores. The Commission also is working with Chinese trade officials to stop exports of substandard cords to the United States.
the scapegoat rears it's ugly head.....

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Yes Joe,
same team.

maybe we just differ in tactics a bit.

do you find irony in that we discuss the safety issues of x-cords here, while most of America strings them on thier homes for Xmas?

i do....

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 53
N
Member
Joe,

Is it a violation to use this type of equiptment as surge protection of typically valuable merchandise?

Many folks ask for quads and even two quads in TV and computer locations, they are not protected in the event of a surge.

Then we get into protecting the panel, I recomend surge protecting devices to everyone as a rule of thumb.
High voltage, as well as all low voltage, especially low voltage.

And, this way the manufacturer with his lifetime waranty upto whatever $$$ amount is the liable party.

NonLinearLoad.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Member
We will be interested in hearing about any specific DOCUMENTED cases of a failure of a LISTED outlet strip device, or cord assembly that resulted in some kind of damage or loss of life.

It will be interesting to see the documentation that will be provided, given the numbers of these devices in use around the United States.

PS: We don't want to hear any anecdotal stories that relate to modified, or home made devices.


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 01-05-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 812
Member
If 'ya ask me, it would be cheaper to install regular outlets. (Excluding cable/conduit/wire, buy in bulk.) Figure 15 amp(Office equipment can survive on 15 amps.) outlets cost as little as 40cents, 3-4 gang boxes cost about $1.50 ea. Three outlets ($1.20) + One box (1.50) = about (2.70) Consider these basic breaker strips cost about $4.00 each, you just saved about $1.30. About 50 cubicles to an office (if it's this type of office! Still.) 50 x $1.30 = $65.00!! Go buy a new chair or something! But then again, if it protects from surges, replace $0.40 with $5.00 and the $4.00 strip cost with $7.00! (Not cheap around here!) Do that later. Still, price it out!


Is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
electrikid, Your math is a bit off IMHO. At 180va per device you are going to need to take into account all of the added distribution equipment, service size, number of panel board and breakers. Branch circuit distribution and on and on. Show me a contractor who prices just the install (T&M) on one receptacle at less than $40.00 or so and I will show you a contractor who is losing money or on the margin.

Anyway interesting topic and brings to mind an electrical inspector who would release a "temporary final" but would not release the final until all of the equipment, pc's,printers etc were in place and all of the branch circuit panel board load calcs matched the actual load served... This inspector made electrical engineers cringe!
( Steve, You know who I am talking about.... If your out there reading these post's I miss ya! Hope your enjoying retirement.)

[This message has been edited by kentvw (edited 09-08-2004).]

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