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#101327 03/08/07 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
This is just a couple circuits for residential.
The same PVC we use underground is connected to it.


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#101328 03/08/07 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
M
Member
Is this carlon round box listed for outdoor use? I have only used them indoors before. If it is listed for wp outdoors, then how about using the receptacle cover and a receptacle that is not connected to any wiring. Label as unused.

#101329 03/08/07 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
M
Member
This box has a solid bottom, the thing will fill up with water the first time it rains or the sprinklers come on. Also, you don't know if the lid is UV resistant or strong enough for walkover use, what's to say it won't get brittle and crack after 2 months in the sun? Then somebody steps into it and you have exposed wires and a broken ankle.

As I understand it, there are two code compliant options for a below grade situation:
-A handhole box
-A bronze "deck box" with listed potting compound installed*

*this may not even be legal, as I know there are restrictions if it's an Art 680 installation

#101330 03/08/07 02:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
I'll check on it, I'm sure the box is w/p it has to be its the same as PVC pipe, but I'll check on the cover.


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
J
New Member
there are not safety standards for floor boxes intended for outside locations. The UL514 standard (water exclusion covers) is intended for concrete floors and do not mention about out or inside locations, however since the UL water exclusion test is only to prevent water from enter into the box for only 2 minutes, placing a floor box in outside locations is not recommended.

Last edited by pauluk; 11/25/07 10:35 AM.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
"the box is w/p it has to be its the same as PVC pipe "

This is debatable.

No matter how carefully it is prepped, PVC conduit buried underground usually leaks, and depending on the pitch of the pipe, you will end up with a box full of water.

Quazite (or Christy) is the proper way to go. About $100.00 for your application.

Last edited by Redsy; 11/25/07 11:37 AM.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
How have I missed this thread for so long? frown

There is no such thing as 'waterproof' in electric work. I don't care what the material is,or how the connections are made.

This is because the wires themselves are not waterproof ... moisture can wick through the strands. This is because the pipes are all 'open' where they enter boxes. Moisture will condense, then accumulate in the low spots. As a consequence, even in the desert, buried pipe is considered a 'wet' location.

The temporary plastic cover that comes with floor boxes has not the strength, or sunlight resistance, or gasket needed to make it an acceptable permanent cover.

So, you need to take a different approach. Rather than trap water in, you need to make sure it drains. Here's how it's done:
A "handhole" is a fiberglass tube, with a cover for the top only. Approximately the size of a 5 gallon bucket, it has a rather substantial flange for anchoring it in place, in the ground.
Typically, you will dig a little deeper than the handhole, and put a layer of gravel down. Not only will this let water drain, it will help keep down the amount of roots and bugs in the thing.
Your pipes do not connect to the handhole; they will either come in the side, or (better) come up into the bottom. You will leave plenty of wire to work with; 'loose wire' 18" long isn't unusual.

For connections, I use ordinary wire nuts, then dip them in 'scotch-kote.' I take care to place them in the handhole so that they drain.

The handholes sold for electrical use are somewhat sturdier than the ones used for lawn sprinkler valves. The covers are available with a variety of markings. While the $50 price may seem a lot, the installed product will survive being driven over by the gardener, and will not shift in the ground.

Attempts to use other products - floor boxes, bell boxes, etc - always result in any metal corroding, the box (no matter how gasketed) filling with mud, roots, etc, ... and the pipe breaking where it connects to the box.

Another problem with using these smaller boxes is that your pipes are never deep enough. Code issues aside, shallow pipes get broke - usually when the gardener looks for a leak in the sprinkler system. You want your pipes at least a shovel-blade deep in the ground.

Finally, 1/2 PVC was created by the devil, to make your pulls hell. You can forget ever being able to re-pull wires. ALWAYS go up a size or two.

Last edited by renosteinke; 11/25/07 01:22 PM.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931
Likes: 34
G
Member
George grazed this question but it needs to be asked directly. Is this feeding the underwater light? That certainly changes the answer about what is necessary.


Greg Fretwell
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