ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Furnace Wiring

The 322.16 defined appliances can be ordered with a factory installed cord and cap. That keeps the plumber, cabinet man or appliance truck driver out of our "trade" and makes the inspector happy. It is not that much more expensive for the factory cord and the "less hassle" factor makes it a bargain.
It is certainly worth bringing up to the builder. Down the road this is certainly a safer installation. There is a readily accessible means of disconnect for servicing and replacement is a snap.

Well I do not often disagree with you either but I can't even see how what your saying is legal.

To me that makes as much sense as a cop writing me a ticket because I am standing near him when he sees a speeder go by.

Here in MA you would be required to notify the property owner about this issue.

But not a big deal and I don't want to seem like a PITA.

Bob

Being one of the "West Coasters", I had only seen Receptacles mounted for FAUs in Residential stuff - with the hopes that the installer plugs in a Factory Installed Cord to that Receptacle.

This would best be viewed as:
***West Coast Residential FAU - 101***

Commercial Disposals and Dishwashers are a different thing, for some odd reason!
Used to be what a given AHJ had preference to - if these Appliances were Hard-Wired, or Cord-Plug connected.

Since the fact that over time, more and more preferred hard-wired Appliances, I began to see these items as "Default Hard-Wired".

It might come down to this:

1: During Rough, figure the worst-case scenario, and make provisions for either a Receptacle, or Hard-Wire from a 104 Blank Cover by placing a 1 gang outlet in a workable location.

2: When Finish comes along:
a: if the Appliance comes with a Cord, install a Receptacle - plug in the Cord, go on to next task.

b: If the Appliance has no Cord, Hard-Wire it, then go on to next task.

Problem now exists in the fair way of Estimation on this type of quagmire!
(or the thoughts of opening a grand Worm Container, by searching the Project Manual for specifications, by throwing an RFI at someone, or diving in with a query to the DBS for their preferences).

Some of these Construction issues, make things like Time Travel look like a cake walk!

My answer is:

When someone finds out what the truth is, pass on the information to me!

From the "Been There, Done That" desktop of Scott E. Thompson - Eeelecktrickal Injunear-ring Division.

Bob- Let me put it another way: I write the violation(s) I see when I inspect a job (new house) and post the violation(s) on the job site and notify the contractor of record as I am required to do by Michigan law. If it turns out that the "contractor of record" did not create the violation he/she will not hesitate to tell me so. Now the homeowner/builder will see the violation(s) as they are posted on the job site. Now the communication will happen between the homeowner/builder and the person who did the work about who is responsible to correct the problem. You've already told me you didn't do the work so I would expect either a call from you that you've been hired to correct the problem or another eligible person will be making the correction and scheduling a re-inspection under their permit. Works every time.

We still friends Bob?

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 02-20-2007).]

Of course.

Each area does things differently.

Maybe changing topics and need to start another thread, but exactly what do you require on your permit applications for elctrical? Does it just say kitchen remodel? Or does it list a specific number of outlets, appliances?

I have set up the application/fee schedule by number of openings(which has a definition I won't detail here) and appliances (and other categories such as equipment, special equipment, special conditions, and communication systems. I set up the fee structure to follow the NEC so I have a really close idea what the permit is for, what is going to be inspected (time spent, accurate/fair fees) and who is responsible for it. If the electrical application include 2 appliances for a kitchen remodel, I know the dishwaher and the disposal are the responsibility of the electrical contractor. If the electrical contractor tells me he didn't wire the disposal (and is not going to wire it) then the homeowner is responsible for hiring a new electrician who will need to pull a new permit (with a minimum fee at least, of course.) This new fee helps cover the rigamarole time and discourages these types of situations.

Oh yeah one other thing. If an HVAC can't do proper electrical work to at least supply their unit, they need to go back to HVAC school. We allow our HVAC to do electrical work specific only to their work. If they have to start adding sub-panels (as I see happen quite often, our worse yet double tapping breakers or even getting their power ahead of the main breaker[yes it happened]) or even relocating breakers in the panel to get a 220 breaker in, then they have to get an electrical contractor to pull a permit and do that work.

But an HVAC person should know enough about an electrical circuit and the NEC to run another circuit if necessary or reconnect a 1900 box with a switch on it and supply the unit properly. They should.

Garbage disposal cord & plug, maximum 3 foot long. Other kitchen applainces can't tell because they are concealing the type of connection. Water heater or furnace, would have to be listed and labeled for cord connection. Except for the instant (no storage tank) water heaters I have not seen any listed for cord connection.
As for writing a violation for something like a garbage disposal with a six foot cord and no connector, I handle it this way. The inspection report, that I leave at the job, has the electrical contractors name, the job name and the job address. The violation is against the address. The owner is responsible for having it corrected, and the electrician is the guy they should have fix it.
Alan--