The estimating game is quite hard to figure out,as i really have no experience doing this. I know how long it takes to install the jobs i am performing but thats not necessarily a realistic approach on the hours to bid them at. I have found myself shaving my price in the past and on the last quote i did not do this and was awarded the job the next day.My overhead is low,my office is out of my home I bought all required insurance and workers comp,I operate from my cell phone , I have a fax line , fuel expenses,i own my van and most required tools. I have come up with a hourly rate of 65.10/hr which I use when I bid and the last couple of jobs I have finished using up only about 60% of the hours I allowed for. I think I may be low on my prices but I am not sure.I am kind of leaning towards a new apprentice that maybe I could groom into a good guy that could maybe watch out for any jws i may hire in the future plus i could really use a guy to carry materials help pull etc and office help is a great thought as well but first i must get a office. If i was to hire a jw right now i could bid on more work that i know is there but im just to chicken because of the dont grow to fast advise i have recd in the past.Right now iam making good profits,more than i have ever made but ive only been at it a short time and i am definetly not a experienced business man by any means,I think maybe Ill give it a few more months and keep banking my cash and working like a dog Id like to thank all the people on this board for your excellent advise and for sharing your experiences and knowledge.

trev